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University of Houston. Hines, Gerald - Hines transcript, 1 of 1. December 1, 2004. Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries. University of Houston Digital Library. Web. September 19, 2021. https://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/768/show/767.

Disclaimer: This is a general citation for reference purposes. Please consult the most recent edition of your style manual for the proper formatting of the type of source you are citing. If the date given in the citation does not match the date on the digital item, use the more accurate date below the digital item.

University of Houston. (December 1, 2004). Hines, Gerald - Hines transcript, 1 of 1. Oral Histories from the Houston History Project. Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries. Retrieved from https://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/768/show/767

Disclaimer: This is a general citation for reference purposes. Please consult the most recent edition of your style manual for the proper formatting of the type of source you are citing. If the date given in the citation does not match the date on the digital item, use the more accurate date below the digital item.

University of Houston, Hines, Gerald - Hines transcript, 1 of 1, December 1, 2004, Oral Histories from the Houston History Project, Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries, accessed September 19, 2021, https://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/768/show/767.

Disclaimer: This is a general citation for reference purposes. Please consult the most recent edition of your style manual for the proper formatting of the type of source you are citing. If the date given in the citation does not match the date on the digital item, use the more accurate date below the digital item.

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Title Hines, Gerald
Creator (LCNAF)
  • University of Houston
Creator (Local)
  • Houston History Project
Contributor (Local)
  • Cutler, Leigh, interviewer
  • University of Houston, project
Date December 1, 2004
Description This is an oral history interview with Gerald Hines conducted as part of the Houston History Project.
Subject.Topical (LCSH)
  • Business
Subject.Name (LCNAF)
  • Hines, Gerald D.
Subject.Geographic (TGN)
  • Houston, Texas
Genre (AAT)
  • interviews
Language English
Type (DCMI)
  • Sound
  • Text
Original Collection Oral Histories - Houston History Project
Digital Collection Oral Histories from the Houston History Project
Digital Collection URL http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory
Repository Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries
Repository URL http://info.lib.uh.edu/about/campus-libraries-collections/special-collections
Use and Reproduction Educational use only, no other permissions given. Copyright to this resource is held by the content creator, author, artist or other entity, and is provided here for educational purposes only. It may not be reproduced or distributed in any format without written permission of the copyright owner. For more information please see the UH Digital Library Fair Use policy on the "About" page of this website.
File Name index.cpd
Item Description
Title Hines transcript, 1 of 1
Format (IMT)
  • application/pdf
Original Item Location ID 2006-005, Transcript Box 9, HHA 00553
File Name hhaoh_201207_179b.pdf
Transcript A CONVERSATION WITH GERALD HINES IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CENTER FOR PUBLIC HISTORY. UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON Interviewee: MR. GERALD HINES Date: December1 .2004 Place: Telephone Call from Houston to London Interviewer: Leieh Cutler HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 1 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives INTRODUCTION Center for Public History University of Houston GERALD HINES Gerald D. Hines came to Houston in 1948, after receiving a degree in mechanical engineering from Purdue University. In search of good investment opportunities in the early 1950s, he began constructing small buildings and warehouses.' In1957 he founded Gerald D. Hines Interest,a firm that is now one of the largestp rivately held real estated evelopment, investment,a nd managemenct ompaniesin the world. As co-ownera nd chief executiveo fficer, Hines is responsiblef or directing all firm policy and procedure,a sw ell asp articipatingi n major new businessv enturesa nd cultivating new and existingi nvestorr elations. Among other careera ccomplishmentsM, r. Hines is creditedf or settingn ew industry standards for quality in real estate development and management, and for his support of urban planningi nitiatives. He overseesa portfolio of more than 600 propertiesv aluedi n excesso f $14 billion.' Many of thosem ajor propertiesa rei n Houston,i ncluding the Galleriad evelopmentt,h e Williams (Transco) Tower, and several downtown buildings. Mr. Hines splits his time during the year between Houston and London. INTERVIEW The interview focuses on Mr. Hines' involvement in commissioning French sculptor Jean Dubuffet to create Monument to the Phantom (Monument Au Fant6me) for the outdoor plaza at the 1100 Louisiana Building in downtown Houston. It touches upon such details as the coordinationb etweent he building's architecturea nd the sculptured esign,t he challenges involved in getting the piece installed, the cost of the art, and the inspiration behind Dubuffet's creation. The interview was conductedo ver the telephoneb etweenL ondon and Houston;M r. Hines was in his London office. He was cooperativeth roughoutt he interview, which consisted of specific,t argetedq uestionsi ntendedt o keept he conversationle ngth to a minimum, in considerationo f internationalc alling expenses.T he interview requireda pproximatelyt wenty minutes. For further insight on the topic, Mr. Hines suggestedc ontactingt he projectm anagera t the architectural firm that worked with him on the selection, placement design, and installation of the Dubuffet sculpture. ' WalterL . Buengera ndJ osephA . Pratt,B ut Also GoodB usinessT: exasC ommerceB anl<sa nd the Financingo f Houstona nd Texas,1 886-198(6C ollegeS tation:T exasA &M UniversityP ress1, 986)2 24. 'This informationw asa cquiredfr omt heH inesc ompanyw ebsiteh, ttp://www.hines.com. HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 2 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Side A Cutler: This is Tape One, Side A. This is Leigh Cutler doing a phone interview with Gerald Hines and the date is Monday, November 29,2004.1 This is an interview regarding the Dubuffet sculpture in downtown Houston at the 1100 Louisiana Building. The interview is taking place in Houston, Texas, over the phone with Gerald Hines, who is in London. I'm not sure how much you already know about what I'm doing, but I am a graduate student at U. of H. in the History department and this interview is part of a larger study that I'm planning to do about the history of public art in Houston. I'm basing it largely on oral history interviews and at this initial stage,I 'm focusingo n a few of the sculpturest hat are in downtown, including the Dubuffet2 at 1100 Louisiana. So, that's why I wanted to talk to you. Hines: And you're alsoc oncentratingo n the Miro?3 Cutler: That's right, and I already spoke to Mr. Love earlier this month and got a lot of good information about that sculpture from my interview with him. 1 The recorded introduction was prepared on this date, for which the interview was originally scheduled. Due to a scheduling conflict, the interview was postponed and actually took place on WednesdayD, ecemberl , 2004. ' The title of this sculpture is Monument to the Phantom; it was named originally in French, Monument Au Fant6me. 3 Thit reference is to Personage and Birds. the Joan Mir6 sculpture in the outdoor plaza of Texas Commerce Tower in downtown Houston. HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 3 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Hines: Good. Cutler: I wanted to complement that with the Dubuffet. So, if you don't mind I have a few questions lined up and we can just go from there. Hines: Sure. Cutler: First of all, what was the original thought behind the configuration of the ground level plan of 1100 Louisiana, in terms of not building it out to the street, but leaving an open plaza? Hines: Well, I think that in the preliminary thoughts was to have a sculptural piecet here and so, the designo f the building encompasseda plaza. We tried to leave a plaza, whether it was intemal or extemal, on each of our projects, such as One Shell and Pennzoil, which is an internal, enclosed glass plaza. Then of course, Texas Commerce Tower. Cutler: I know that the sculpturew asn ot actuallyi nstalledu ntil aboutt hreey ears after the building was built. Is that correct? Hines: I don't think it was that long. No, it wasn't that long. HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 4 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Cutler: Hines: Cutler: Hines: Mr. Gerald Hines Okay. Well, I'm just wondering, since there was a little bit of a difference of time - they didn't happens imultaneously- how much of the rest of the building's architecturew as consideredw hen a sculpturew as chosenf or that outdoor plaza? Certainly the design had been made and Chuck Bassett was the architect, who hasn ow passeda way. It was in considerationo f the architectureo f the building. I worked with Chuck Bassett on that, as I worked with I.M. Pei on the Mir6 sculpture. What considerationsw ent into choosingD ubuffet specificallya s the artist, and choosing that particular piece, Monument to the Phantom? Could you just tell me a little bit of background on that choice? We looked at a group of artists, and we thought with the design of the First National Bank of Dallas - that was the major tenant at the time - that it would be a good companion to that design. So, that became our focus: what would be compatible with the architectural design. I think that Chuck Basset and we felt that fcompatibility] when we looked at all the potential fsculptures]. I went to Paris to meet Dubuffet and he was quite elderly; he had his HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 5 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines infirmities. This was [the same procedure] as when we went to meet Mir6 when we did the Texas Commerce Tower. Cutler: Right. So, you say the sculpture was a companion to the design of the building. What do you mean by that exactly? Hines: Well, that it would fit in the courtyard, that it would fit with the type of granite that we had chosen for the building, and the general architecture - the exterior materials. Cutler: Was the Monumentt o the Phantomd esigneds pecificallyf or that space,o r had Dubuffet already made that piece? Hines: No, no, it was designed for that space. Cutler: What othera rtistsd id you consideri.f anv? Hines: Right now I just can't remember... I know we did consider others, but I can't remember who they were. Cutler: That's all right. Otherwise,w ho was involved in the selectionp rocesso f the artist and the sculpture? Anyone else besides you and the architect? HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 6 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Hines: No,j ust ChuckB assewt ith S.O.M.a Cutler: I know with Texas Commerce and the Mir6 vou all had sort of a selection processw, here severala rchitectse ntereda competition? Did you have something like that with this selection as well? Hines: That was on the architecturen, ot on the piece of sculpture. Cutler: Oh, yes, that's right. Hines: We had maquettes drawn up on the Texas Commerce and there were some maquettesm adef or the building at 1100L ouisiana. Cutler: Do you remembehr ow mucht hes culpturec ost? Hines: No... It was too long ago (Laughs)... I think it was in the area of s200.000. Cutler: And did that cost affect the decision of the sculpture at all? Do you remembetrh atb einga ni ssue? - S.O.M. is the acronym for the architectural firm, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 7 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Hines: No. We had engaged [Dubuffet] and I think the process was that we paid him for some drawings and then after we got the drawings, we looked at those, and that's how we did it. Cutler: I guess I'm just curious on the basic idea of why Dubuffet, and how he came up. Was there some sort of inspiration, something he had done before,o r someonein volved who was fond of his work? Hines: Well, we looked at a number of sculptors and we just thought that Dubuffet's work would be interesting in that particular plaza. Cutler: What kinds of challengesa rosei n gettingt he sculpturea ctuallyi nstalled there in the plaza? Hines: Oh, just getting it done. (Laughs) Cutler: Timing-wisey, ou mean? Hines: Timing - just to get him to finish the work. He was quite elderly and his studiow asn ot a big studio.I t wasv ery a personalizesdt udio. Cutler: And the size of the piece made that a bit more difficult? HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 8 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Hines: Right, right. Cutler: So, he did it in a studio in France and then it was brought over here? Hines: Yes. Cutler: Okay. The sculpture was in place by 1983, and I've read that Hurricane Alicia destroyed a lot of the windows in that building. Is that correct information? Hines: The hurricane? Oh, yes - some [windows]. Cutler: I was wondering if that affected the sculpture when the windows fell out or were destroyed. Hines: No, not to my knowledge. Cutler: I know that also Chicago and New York have major Dubuffets as public art. I know Chicago'sfo r surec amea ftert heH oustons culptureD. id this createa nys orto f notedc onnectiobne tweenth osec itiesa ndH ouston? Hines: I don't think so. HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 9 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Cutler: Mr. Gerald Hines Whatw ould you sayw ast he artist'sc ommentaryo n Houstont hrought his sculptureth ath e designed? Hines: His comments on Houston? Cutler: Yes. Hines: I don't think he had any. It was a foreign city; it was outside of France! Cutler: I hadj ust readt hat the designw as supposedto look like a cityscapea nd I would think that by just looking atit, at a glance, it wouldn't look like what you would typically imagine acity to look like. So, I just wondered if that went into his decision - making it look like a city, or like the Houston skyline. Hines: I've always said that Dubuffet's work looks like the rocks along the coast of Provence,f rom Cannest o Nice. You walk along the seashoreth ere, and you'll see these limestone rocks with very dark black outlines. I think that's where he got his inspiration. Cutler: What was the sculpture's meaning then for Houston atthat point in the city's downtown development? And how has that meaning changed over time? HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 10 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Hines: Well, it set somep recedencea bouta rt in public places. I think it put pressureo n otherst o think aboutt hat. Cutler: Do you mean other places within Houston, or in other cities? Hines: Yes, other places in Houston. Cutler: Overall,w hy wouldy ou sayt his sculptureis significanitn Houston's history,o vert hesep astt wentyy ears? Hines: Well, I think it's an outstandings culpturea nd to have that kind of piecei n downtown Houston is sienificant. Cutler: And it's significanfto r thea rt scenein Houstono r for theb usinesws orld? Hines: For the downtown urband evelopment,f or the art scene...I mean,i t's a significant piece! Cutler: Those are all the questions I had lined up. Is there anything else you can think of that I didn't mention, that might be important to this topic? Hines: I can't think of anything right now, but you might call... I can't think of his name, but he was a junior partner with Chuck Basset in the San 10 HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 11 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives Mr. Gerald Hines Francisco office of S.O.M. John Harris, in our office there in Houston, would probably know his name. He was the project manager on that and might be able to give you some additional insight. Cutler: Okay, that'd be great. I'll look into that. Thank you so much! Hines: You're welcome. Goodbve. Cutler: Bye. 11 HHA# 00553 Interviewee: Hines, Gerald Interview Date: December 1, 2004 Page 12 of 12 Univeristy of Houston Houston History Archives