witnesses whom you eire suggesting are
not reliable. I ihink you nave lo ap-
proach communism in ibis manner: it's
ee ele-elie eete'i! experience. Ami you're reconverted in terms of a repudiation of
et life experience. Now that does not
necessarily mean thai you eire crazy, unstable, or anything else because you've
become a loyal American once again."
Mr. Lyons was of lhe opinion that
there was an element of validity in whal
Mr. Combs said. He added. "There is a
selective process there eunl you are likely
In gel lhe man or the woman who,
having abandoned communism, fe'els
"The thing to remember in this en-
tin- discussion," pointed out Mr. Lynn-,
"is thai these former Communists who
teslilv heive already gone through a
process of self-selection."
Mention was made by Mr. Lyons theii
the turnover in the Communist party is
about lull per cenl every second year
and mathematically there are literally
hundreds of thousands of ex-Communists. He further seiid thai the majority
of ex-Communists have not the type of
knowledge or experience lo qualify them
In testify, and of the minority that has
inside information useful to our country
onlv a lew have the courage and moral
fiber to go through wilh it.
"Remember," said Mr. Lyons, "in
certain quarters of lhe country llicy like
to make us ihink lhal lhe former Communist lives on gravy. The exact opposite- i- hue ... to testify means to face
a barrage of abuse . . il mceins losing
lite friends of :i lifetime ... in a grceil
many cetses it means a rift in the
FEAR OF ATTACK
The experiences of Bella Dodd. an ex-
Communist, were related by Mr. Lyon-.
During her firsl testimony before ;i
congressional committee — and Bella
Dodd singe's me a- em exceedingly
intelligent ami balanced woman —
she described how she struggled with
her conscience lor ;i year before testi-
fying, etnd part of the Struggle wets due
to the fear ni attack, When she finally
-'it around to testifying, she received a
'linn-.mil eihusivc letters and postcards,
tnd iheil eiside from telephone calls and
•ctually ei number of attempted personal
assaults. It's em extreme case, perhaps,
''in every former Communisl knows thai
''ie best way to avoid becoming a target
■or attack is tei maintain silence."
Hardy Burl called attention to another
Phase of lhe question, "How reliable is
'he testimony of former Communists?",
"nd referred lo reports ilieil the Commu-
list peulv is conducting em undercover
campaign to discredit the testimony of
jormer Communists, lb- asked Mr.
Buckley whether these reports were true
**< TS FORUM NKWS. fovember, 1955
"Well, that's like saying theit the Communists eire reported lo be opposed lo
capitalism," seiid Mr. Buckley. "It's obvious and very clear lhat lhe Communists
have been out to undermine eil! anti-
Communist apostates and have been
doing so by waging a vicious and highly
successful campaign." Mr. Buckley
agreed with Mr. Lyons that lhe slander
to which Communisl apostates are suli-
jected plays a major factor in the length
of lime it takes to uncover the apparatus.
i\ reader of Facts Forum
l\eies heartily disagrees with the
article, "Fair Means or Foul."
hy John Marshall Butler, 1'. S.
Senator from Maryland I October, I9:>5, issue I regarding tlie
Olympic Games to he held in
Ho wrote lo the editor of
Facts Forum lSeivs as follows:
"Senator Butler from Maryland suggests in his article
'Fair Means or Foul* thai the
Soviet athlete is a -propaganda agent*1 a 'brainwashed individual' who is compelled to
win hy liis country, which is
*not interested in games . . .
''The flood senator does mil
seem to understand what
makes a champion athlete, *•
hiu. hlack cannon in a man's
rihs will not make him a
champion, Neither will brainwashing,
"Anil the purpose of Olympic Committees is not to analyze the motives of an athlete
anil say, 'Theii's a naughty
motive, little hoy. You eem't
piny our game.*
"Il seems to me lhal tin'
yeood senator is smarting from
the fact theit tin- Russians
have as gooil a team as ours,
and maybe a better one."
Richard II. Dorteh
"1 suspect." said Mr. Buckley, "that if
people like Whitlaker Chambers hadn't
l,a,| t,, suffer, and hadn't publicly suffered, the terrible torment ilieil resulted
from pulling the linger on Alger Hi-.
other men would have come up ami
given io tin' l"'?l- ;l,l(l t0 prop" '""'
gressional investigating committees,
80me "I the vital information that is
-I would like." said Air. Combs, "to
make one' oblique reference to Mr. W hit-
taker Chambers, whose bona fide conver
sion I do not for one moment question.
lo bring out that lhe recovery, although
attended by travail . . . has also not been
without its upholstering features, including greater prominence them he had
ever enjoyed before, along with great
public approval emd acclaim and a highly successful book."
It was injected by Mr. Buckley lhat
he thought this was a "nasty reference" anil Mr. ('ombs said. "I would
suggest thai Mr. Chambers was not ani-
meilcil ley this, but I would point out
that there have been certain perquisites
of conversion which have not been en-
DANGER OF UNJUST ACCUSATION
Mr. Combs continued, "The danger
is then everyone who points out the
necessity for ceiuliun in evaluating the
responsibility of these people will be
charged with Communist leanings. The
American public should not make the
mistake of believing that everyone who
is of the opinion lhal witnesses should
be mure carefully examined—that the
governmenl should assume a larger
responsibility for them—is thereby automatically guilty of a pro-Communist attitude or of weakness toward communism."
Mr. Lyons --eiitl. "I agree with Mr.
Combs thai we need caution. We need
caution in the legal processes and we
ne'e'el et great ileal of caution in our own
judgment of people on all sides. But the
measure of the success of the Communists in trying to discredit all former
Communists, and so paralyze our attempt
lo expose the conspiracy, is in the fact
thai a great many respectable newspapers, even conservative newspapers
and magazines, columnists, and eom-
mentators have fallen into the habit of
referring to nearly eil! witnesses of this
tvpe eis informers, paid informers, and
professional witnesses. What do these
people want? Would llicy prefer that
former Communisls. lhe most knowledgeable people in this particular field.
-In.nlil conceal their special knowledge?"
To illustrate, Air. Lyons mentioned
an editorial from a newspaper which
he considers among the most conservative in the country, lhe name of which
he preferred not to disclose. The edi-
torial indicated the country weis shocked
lo find thai llu' Justice Department has
"paid informers' on its staff.
"Would they really prefer." said Mr.
Lyons, "thai these former Communists,
who have given valuable testimony,
should keep quiet?"
In concluding. Air. Lyons expressed
lhe opinion ilieil the education of Ameri-
ca on communism has been conducted
by people like Benjamin Gitlow, Max
Eastman, eiml other such former Communists.