paradoxical facl iheil the ver) principle
"I Western civilization, the axiomatic
lend that man is entirel) responsible for
the intellectual choices he has made in
an exercise nf his free will." liei-icalh
Mi i arth) intends to take people seriously. If vmi join ei Communist-front,
McCarthyism tends to presume thai you
'li'l -.. inlclligcnlh ami in gnml faith,
that you waul tn advance Communisl
interests eenel fur thai reels,,n you he...
Combs: Of course, that's an entirel)
false assumption in the firsl place that.
because people have joined organizations which wen- laterdei mated Communisl fronts, m- were later dominated
by Communists . . .
Iii ckley: No. I'm saying if you
joined a Communisl organization. I .li.l
nol s;(\ \,,u joined ;i liberal organiza-
tinii w hich later mi weis ceiplurcd . . .
Combs: Well. I don'l kno« what you
mean. If you're talking aboul joining
communism I would -;i\ lhat anyone win.
joined lhe Communisl party might t..
have his head examined, ami should be
held in strict responsibility fnr lln- moral
choice whi.h he al lhal lime exercised.
I agree with you. Wc aren'l disputing
Ill RT: 1 want to clarify this ju-i a little
bit and then I'm going In hop right In
W hai is .our analysis of a person who
loin- a Communist-front organization
Combs: In many cases people innocently joined Communist-fronl organisations.
Ill 1(1 : Well, if the, knew it was a
Communist-fronl organization and then
Bi ckley: Ah. luil lhe question i-. how
''" you find oul whether he knew il ?
' ombs: Oh. then I would regard that
W equivalenl h. joining lhe Communisl
in: Toledano: Bul there's another factor. If somebod) innocently joins ei Com-
t-unist-fronl b) its ver) nature Com-
'"iiiiisi-friinis do have innocents linn
'■'■rtainh he should nol objeel In being
asked, .li.l \ml join thi- in -.-nth '. \ml
i-tosl people wh.. join Communist-fronts
'ake ii a- a high insult if you a-k them
aver) simple question which i- the question Senator McCarth) asked.
lit cklet : Vmi ii i- -till a higher in-
'"h il j mi paid them lhe compliment in
'ls*iiiiiini: lhal the) knew what the) were
' ombs: ^ ou're over-simplif) ing the
"hole question. If j mi wanl t.. take up
!','" h case .nl seriatum why let's do that.
'"I it'- impossible In generalize as you
""'v bene done.
-Hi RT: Well, lei'- get specific wilh Pro.
j**-or Hodges, then, ire there any presenl
yestigating committees of Congress
"'"'g the same methods that arc identified
'"' Senator McCarth.'- methods?
Combs: Senator Eastland did.
II .is: Well. I think lhal thc inquisitorial approach i- inherent in lhe congressional investigation and an) idea I
would have In aelinit thai McCarthy has
instituted really basic changes in lhe
powers nf Congress to investigate, I
would question. I think thai he ha- bored
in harder, more ruthlessly. I would quite
\,,w lhe point is lhal we are engaged
in working "ill more t'fT<a'li\e mean- them
simph a psychological explosion nf data.
I think thai we have had ei very constructive resull iii ihe efforl tee pie.ihic.■ uniform methods ol congressional procedure which i- in,I. b) an) manner nf
means, a dead issue. We are forcing a
centralization, it seems t,. me. of the
loyalty machinery which would prevent
departmenl clearing a man. another
departmenl saying be is disloyal or
BUCKLEY: They don'l sen that he i-
disloyal. The) -a\ there's a reason-
Hodges: I -aid tainted. Common
standards, I ihink. arc all-important.
Hi e kley : I don'l believe in common
Hodces: I do believe in dealing with
an) orderly application of th.- law- ..I
this land. If Mm have one standard because v lislike Communists \mi might
have another standard because, maybe,
you'll like Fascists. I don'l know.
Bl-cki.ey: Nnw look: Iichave yourself.
HoDGES: I will tell you righl lure that
if you'll go far enough I" th,- right you'll
find v,,iii-i-II just where I said.
Buckley: And I say lei's nol pla) this
game because il can he played both ways.
Hodges: Well, that's all right: play it.
Ill i M.lel : I agree' w ith \illeli Steven-
son thai the incidence "f Communists in.
saj. ih.- Bureau of \\ ihi Life and Fisheries, is nol necessaril) a national concern, therefore il makes a whole lol of
sense t.. have a much stricter security
proceeding, -;i\. in the- Stale- Department
or iln' Atomic Energ) Commission, than
in the Bureau nf \\ ihi Life and Fisher-
ies. So iln vmi want lhe common standards?
Hodges: Yes. lhe basic common standard in relation In infiltration and treason.
Ill It I: I In estion is. and I'd like to
gel a specific answer from Professor
Hodges ee- well ee- ever.one else: \re the
present investigating committees, any of
them, of Congress pursuing the same
goal- and using methods similar to those
identified with McCarth.? You -ee. they
Hodges: I would -a\ they are ...
BURT: Ilo ..ni think they're wrong in
Hodges: I ihink thai we need whal I
seiid in the firsl place the three items:
uniform congressional procedures, centralized loyalty machinery, and common
standards, wilh intelligence . . .
Ill IM Will, what about you? What do
you ihink. Mr. Combs? Are the. using
I iOMBS: I think some of them arc < 1.>iriu-
exactl) lln- same things. Senator Eastland . . .
Ill RT: Do .(in think that investigating
committees should be eliminated?
COMBS: \,,. I don'l Ihink they should
Hodges: Certainly mil.
("omiis: 1 believe lhc\ sluuild be confined lo very diplomatic standards.
Buckley: Should the) have securit)
data frnm the executive departments?
Should the) he given securit) data?
Combs: I nder highly restricted circumstances.
Bl i KLEl : ^ e.u disapproved of Presidenl Truman's black-oul order?
Combs: ^es. jusl as I disapprove nf
President Liseuhower s Mack-nut eerilcr
which seems to nn- to he inapplicable.
Hi i klei : This i- very important.
Ilnni.l -: \\ .- all agree on lhat, I
For government of. by and for yon and me
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