Senator Joseph McCarthy's name is mentioned
and immediately the sparks start flying . . .
public opinion is very strong on both sides.
Will McCarthy Comd
HI RT: The question, Mr, de Toledano,
eis miu know, is "Will McCarthy come
de TOLEDANO: In order to discuss that
question intelligently you have to start
out with a few basic facts and the most
basic of those is whal was McCarthy's
His appeal. I would say, wei- lee | pie
who had seen the Communist movement
grnw in this counlrs. win. had seen the
depredations of communism internationally, and wine thought tbat our gi.vcru-
ment was not doing anything about it
for a variety nf reasons ami among them
that it was infiltrated.
I think lhat. le. he- lair about it. McCarthy will nol come back if the presenl
state of mind in this countT) continues
and. to put it somewhat crudely, the people in llii- I'lninirv are prosperous ami
apathetic. Thev have heen lulled hv the
propaganda nt coexistence, the propaganda that th. Russians arc changing. If
that continues, McCarthy will nol come
back. If, however, the hot war — the cold
war gets a little butter, McCarthy - appeal will have a function in this countrj
and McCartln will he able to come back.
BURT: You don't think that he'll be
Iran-planted by someone like Senator
MeCarran or Senator Jenner?
de Toledano: Well. Senator MeCarran is now in negotiations with his
Maker. I don't know about anv of the
BURT: Eastland, I wa- referring to, by
tbe way; Senator Eastland. Thanks for
catching me up on that Professor Hodge-.
\\ hat do you think. Professor Hodges, will
McCarthy come back ?
Hodges: I don't think McCarthy will
come hack and lhe- reasons assigned by
\lr. tie- Toledano seem to me to be some
what -hurt of the cm red analysis. It's
very important for us to recognize lhat,
while Ihe tight goes nn against Communist infiltration, the drama nf lhe weir
years, of lhe New Deal, we'll have In
agree, has passed eiml I believe lh.it we
hen.- more effective control over the
Another way of getting at this and if
miu will permit me to report, I'd like to
-en objective!) that here is an interesting
problem of publicity. I used, in working
mil figures of the aineiiinl of space lhal
McCarthy has heen able to command in
the la-t several years, a thing called
Facts on File. I think il's rather important to get the impression of Facts mi
File, which contains every item nf any
importance whatsoever in regard to . . .
But ki.e'i : Thai costs s(>n a year.
Hodges: Oh. nn. 890. I really spend
money fnr this program. I think ...
Combs: The) used tu sponsor me. I
don't think I'll have any comment tn
make except that it's an admirable publication.
Hodges: All right. Now, specifically,
frnm January to December, 1954, which
I lake it to be the peak year of McCarthyism, looked at in terms of the number nl entries he can gel nn the new-.
papers, he occupied live ami a half columns ami ihi- i- miniature type, sel -..li.l
and that's ;i Int. ll is a greal registration
of importance, news-wise.
IH life What's the point of that. Pro-
Hodges: Now, the poinl nf that i- from
January t" July be has managed t.. get
half a column. I think it shows lhat: ( 1 I
w ith.nit controlling an investigating subcommittee; i 2' with the climate of politics, national and international, as it is,
he has lost his capacity which is vital
de Toledano: Then in a wa\ you
agree with me, don't you?
Hodces: Yes, I go right along wilh
you bul 1 don't ihink he's going In come
hack because I don't see the position
which he could occupy.
BURT: Are you saying that be is not
going to come back because be won't he
able to get any more publicity, Profeasof
Hodges: I Ihink the publicity in the
United States is an essential ingredient of
politics, and you might say this is the
registration of a paper in the wind.
BliRT: Professor Hodges, eire you pro-
McCarthy or anti-McCarthy?
HODGES: I regard McCarthy as a phenomenon nf 1950 I" 1955. He would
never bene been heard of. in the way
lhal I have described, bad it not been
for iln- circumstances.
BURT: Are you for McCarthy or again-'
McCarthy, then? Is that .our answer?
Hodces: I am againsl McCarthy as et
person. I think thai lie i- nut my ideal
of an American senator.
Ill 1ST: Well. Mill dislike hi- method*
and him, personally, both?
Hodges: I am nol interested in bin1
personally. I think that he weis made bj
Mr. Roosevelt, lhe New Ileal and lhe well"
laxity regarding Communists, and '
think it's a sad commentary thai lhat i>
the- wen this man discovered communisl'1
in 1950, as he admitted.
BURT: Now wc know that you »•-
eiueiin-t McCarthy, so, Mr. Buckley, do >("'
think McCarthy will come back?
I'.i i Kill : I tend In Ihink he will and
for much lln' same rcei-ems thai Kedp-
FACTS FORUM NEW-. Vot