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Gummelt, Delores and White, Barbara
Gummelt and White transcript, 1 of 1
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University of Houston. Gummelt, Delores and White, Barbara - Gummelt and White transcript, 1 of 1. July 17, 2008. Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries. University of Houston Digital Library. Web. May 26, 2015. http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/666/show/665.

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University of Houston. (July 17, 2008). Gummelt, Delores and White, Barbara - Gummelt and White transcript, 1 of 1. Oral Histories from the Houston History Project. Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries. Retrieved from http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/666/show/665

Disclaimer: This is a general citation for reference purposes. Please consult the most recent edition of your style manual for the proper formatting of the type of source you are citing. If the date given in the citation does not match the date on the digital item, use the more accurate date below the digital item.

University of Houston, Gummelt, Delores and White, Barbara - Gummelt and White transcript, 1 of 1, July 17, 2008, Oral Histories from the Houston History Project, Special Collections, University of Houston Libraries, accessed May 26, 2015, http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/houhistory/item/666/show/665.

Disclaimer: This is a general citation for reference purposes. Please consult the most recent edition of your style manual for the proper formatting of the type of source you are citing. If the date given in the citation does not match the date on the digital item, use the more accurate date below the digital item.

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Title Gummelt, Delores and White, Barbara
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  • University of Houston
Creator (Local)
  • Houston History Project
Contributor (Local)
  • Burke, Anna, interviewer
Date July 17, 2008
Description This is an oral history interview with Delores Gummelt and Barbara White conducted as part of the Houston History Project.
Subject.Topical (LCSH)
  • Arts
Subject.Name (Local)
  • Gummelt, Delores
  • White, Barbara
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  • Texas
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  • interviews
Language English
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  • Sound
  • Text
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  • audio/mp3
  • application/pdf
Original Item Location ID 2006-005, Box 12, HHA 00691
Original Collection Oral Histories - Houston History Project
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Digital Collection Oral Histories from the Houston History Project
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Title Gummelt and White transcript, 1 of 1
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File Name hhaoh_201207_311d.pdf
Transcript HHA# 00691 Page 1 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 1 Houston History Archives UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON ORAL HISTORY OF HOUSTON PROJECT Barbara White and Delores Gummelt Museums Interviewed by: Anna Burke Date: July 17, 2008 Transcribed by: Michelle Kokes Location: Winedale Historical Center, Roundtop, Texas AB: This is Anna Burke and I’m sitting here with Delores Gummelt the Archivist of the Winedale Historical Center in Roundtop, Texas and Barbara White the Administrative Assistant and Collections Manager. Thank you very much the two of you for sitting down with me. I’d like to begin with the history of the Winedale Center. How would you define it? BW: I would define the Winedale Historical Center as a “frozen in time” museum. We have many furnishings from the period of time, the mid 1800’s and the houses are furnished for that time period, most of which were collected by Ms. Ima Hogg, the former Governor’s daughter. Other holdings that we have… have been donated by local people and they wanted to see them on display. They are mostly German heritage, German immigrant made furniture. AB: What is the extent of acreage? DG: About 215 acres. AB: Are the buildings scattered widely across that or are they pretty close together? DG: They are further apart and we would take tours, we would just walk through the houses and while we were walking we were stopping and telling people about Winedale and about the building that we were going to visit and they would be asking questions and seemed to have a good time.HHA# 00691 Page 2 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 2 Houston History Archives AB: Do they walk around or do you have other means of transportation for the visitors? DG: As long as I have worked here we do not. BW: We have… if there are people who cannot walk that distance we do have golf carts that we can take people around in. AB: Can you give me a history of the property and like who started it? DG: Ms. Ima started it. As far as the history I can go back to 1834. BW: Ms. Ima Hogg, to clarify, is the daughter of a former Governor, James Hogg and she was a great philanthropist and decided to buy this property and restore it and give it to the University of Texas for the Endowment. But the history, I’ll turn that over to Delores. DG: In 1834 the Talsen brothers, Don and Will received this as a Mexican land grant and they stayed in this area for quite some time. Then they had other people who were owners of the property and it went through a few more hands from 1834 until the time that Sam Lewis bought it. Sam Lewis was an Anglo American and he stayed in this area for quite some time but he also went to other places and he was a _______ (3.8) there. So his wife and children stayed here. The older boys ran the place and they had cotton. And that one year particularly that we studied that they made 50 acres of cotton and this was done with slave labor. They had quite a bit of land up here because it ran from two miles on either side of Winedale. They had a whole lot of land at that time. Then when Lewis passed away his wife stayed here until she was too old to stay alone and she stayed with her daughter. In 1884 they sold this place to Joseph Joyce Wagner who came from Germany to Texas and he was in Roundtop. They had a business in Roundtop and he HHA# 00691 Page 3 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 3 Houston History Archives wanted to get his boys out in the country. So they came out here and got this place and the Wagners lived in here from 1884 until (I think that’s right, either ‘82 or something like that… ‘82 or ‘84) and they stayed here until the son, Joseph, Jr. passed away in 1961 and Ms. Ima bought the place. The Wagners grew cotton and they also had a cotton gin here. You can see the cement ______ (5.7) that’s still there. The cotton gin kept in progress until 1968 when cotton was no longer feasible to plant. They sold it and they sold a ____________ (6.0) gin material, machinery all down to South America. They, the Wagner boys all had different jobs and did other things and that’s when they sold the place. But they did have a new store across the road from the house. They stayed, _____________ who was the grandson, great grandson stayed there until 1989 and then they sold it to the University of Texas and they moved away and that was the end of the Wagners in Winedale. Ms. Ima bought it in 1961 and restored it as, like Barbara said, with Texas furniture. She picked the Texas furniture from this local area. She also had other things she wanted to display so we had the Pennsylvania Induction in one of the rooms in the Wagner house. She had one room with different, mainly a different kind of….She had chests and all and some local people… and some that she bought otherwise and brought in. Then after that… let’s see. Want me to tell you some about Ms. Ima? AB: Sure. DG: She’s the daughter of Governor James Hogg. Her mother died when she was 11 years old. Then she traveled with her dad quite a bit but she also had a friend that traveled with her. When he was out electioneering for Governor somebody asked him the question, “If this girl’s name is Ima then who is this other girl? Is that Ura?” and Governor Hogg didn’t say anything he just laughed and so there became this “Ura HHA# 00691 Page 4 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 4 Houston History Archives Hogg.” Over the years I have been on tours and people have come to me and they would say… they would talk about Ms. Ima and why she had that name, Ima and I would have to explain that to them. Then they would say, “I have friends who knew both of them. They knew Ura Hogg too.” I said, “I don’t want to be rude but, there was only Ima Hogg and then she had three brothers: Tom, Mike and Will and that’s all.” “You mean there was no Ura Hogg?” I said, “No.” Then I explained to them what the story was how Ura Hogg, he never acknowledged the fact that it was yes or no, that Ura Hogg… he never told them the other girls name in other words. When she bought this property in ’61 she redid the Lewis house the way it was when the Lewis’ were here because the Lewis were as far back as they wanted to go without lifting up the house. If the house would have been left back to the time when the Townsens’ were here they would have had to tear off half of the house. So they started with the Lewis’ and by that time although the man, he was an Anglo man. Anyway, he was an Anglo person but anyway the language was German. They had built on… Lewis built on the hallway and the right side of the house after they bought it. That’s why Winedale had that big two story house. Ms. Ima thought it was a base stop and everybody thought it was for ten years it was a really base stop. It was simply a place where they stopped to rest feed their horses, and then go on to Austin. They would stay there maybe fifteen or twenty minutes as long as you have time to get out and stretch your legs and go to the restroom and then get going. That’s all they stayed here. But if the weather was bad they did put them up overnight. They might have to hang you by your door knob but they put you up overnight. Then let see… AB: When they did the renovations how detailed were they? Did they get original nails, original windows, original door knobs? HHA# 00691 Page 5 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 5 Houston History Archives DG: The door knobs where the ones that were in the house. All of that is the same. The nails that rebuilt the house, mostly the outside because hurricane Carla had come through here about that time, it damaged the house quite a bit. To repair that they had to match the __________ (11.7) to the factory there to get the square headed nails. That’s what they used to restore that house. The inside of the house is like it was with the original paints from the very beginning. AB: Are the buildings original to the property or were some moved? DG: No… BW: The Wagner house is original… DG: Yeah the Wagner house is original. BW: The Four Square Barn. DG: The Four Square Barn and the Theater Barn are all original. BW: Which it wasn’t a theater at that time it was a barn. The Hazel Slownoak was moved in. DG: Yeah it was moved in. It was a house that was further down on a road called Hackamack Road and the people that bought it didn’t want the house. They sold it to Hazel Slownoak got that deal. She got the house and then she gave it to Ms. Ima to and that’s the reason we call it Hazel Slownoak. BW: The house in the back of our property that a ______________ revival who was moved here from about 20 miles away and it is not original to the property but it has paintings in common with the first house. There are mural paintings inside both houses by a painter, a German painter of the time, Rudolph Meltoir, M-e-l-t-o-i-r I think. That house was moved from about 20 miles away from here. The school house that is on the HHA# 00691 Page 6 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 6 Houston History Archives property was the Winedale school house but it was moved from just right down the street. Not too far down but it was moved onto the property. It was on another track. It served as a church and school house for this area for quite some time. DG: From 1868… I’m not sure about that. AB: 1868? DG: I think I’m not sure. But anyway it was a church for 25 years before they used it for a school. BW: But they had classes there until 1943. At that time the larger school district, every community had their smaller school district, but the larger school districts brought them together and gave them, they felt like, a better education, instead of a one room school house method. DG: One thing that always neat now is just over here. And I’ve run through this a couple of times, people will think, “Oh that’s the Boundry School.” No it’s not the Boundry School. BW: There’s a little community that’s was Boundry community and the Greenvine community, all of them had their little school houses… little one room school houses and it was all about that time, up until that time 1843. DG: ’43-’44 school year was the last year and then ’45-’46 everybody went to Burton or _________ (15.5) schools or to Brenham. They closed up all these little buildings. They took the Winedale school it became a church until the preacher didn’t want to come out here anymore and that was in ’47. Then it stayed empty and that guy who placed it next to used it as a theater… or no not as a theater what am I thinking about? They used it as a barn until they, the students wanted to come back over here got the building and HHA# 00691 Page 7 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 7 Houston History Archives then they brought it back over here and we are portraying it again as the Winedale School _________________ (16.3). BW: There’s a church organ there in the school house also that was actually played after the church ____________. DG: They had it in Roundtop I think is what they were saying and then they brought the thing back out to Winedale after it started the school. AB: What is the origin of the name Winedale? DG: Oh gosh! Winedale originally was known as Trepfal. AB: How is that spelled? DG: It’s German. I’m not sure about the spelling I’ll have to give you that later. Trepfal. BW: T-R-E-P-F-A-L… maybe not? DG: Trepfal in the German means affliction. Because we came out here and everything was… everything came in the winter… everything was against us. People were all by yourself out in the country, you don’t know anything about… you don’t have anything to eat you just had to make it. So it was called Trepfal. So in the spring things got a little better and they planted a garden and had food to eat and started building houses and thing were looking up. There was a little guy down the road who had some grapes and he was a wine maker. So he picked the grapes, mustang grapes off of his fence and made some wine. Called all his neighbors over and we had a wine party and after a couple of drinks it wasn’t so Trepfal anymore so we called the place Winedale. That’s the legend that goes with it. I don’t know if it is true or not… but anyway that is the legend that goes with it. HHA# 00691 Page 8 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 8 Houston History Archives BW: One thing that I read in the documentation was that a lot of the people that immigrated to this area were well educated people and that means in universities and that type of thing but they were not necessarily farmers. So their first few years here that was the learning curve for them because they had to learn how to plant and how to make crops grow and that type of thing. So it may have been that they had a few failed crops before they got to eat real well so that might also be added to that. DG: Well they also had to find out what crops crew. BW: Yeah what grew it was a trial and error type thing. AB: Are there any buildings that are linked back to that original community that are here now, from the original structures from Winedale? There’s none? DG: Maybe the Four Square Barn. The Four Square Barn and the Wagner… the Lewis Wagner house yes. AB: I’d like to run down a list of the structures here and starting with the Wagner house if you could tell me a little bit about that. I know you have already told me some and what can be found in it that the visitors can expect to see in there. DG: Well we’ll start at the front door and we’ll go into the first bedroom. BW: Do you want a general or do you want each room or…? AB: General. BW: Okay. DG: Well I was going to say the master bedroom and it is decorated up with a bed from the Duncan family and there is also in that bedroom a bed that belonged to the Wagner family that they brought from Germany and five generations of Wagner’s slept in that bed after they came to America. Also the paintings in the room and upstairs room HHA# 00691 Page 9 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 9 Houston History Archives were done by Ruldolph Melcher who was living in the area in… well he came here in 1853 and then this might have been done about 1855 because Lewis didn’t get along to the house right away. Then upstairs there are the prettiest paintings up there and that was the parlor. You think it is funny because people want to know why the parlor was upstairs. They used the parlor back in those days only for company and they have one bed in there where the guest would sleep but they kept it as buffets and funerals and ________ (21.1) room and then the little girls’ room in the back. We portrayed it as a ___________ and then across the breezeway there was a boys’ room for both the boys, well the Lewis’ had four boys. ________________ and then one guy named David Harman was staying with them he was sort of a laborer. They had the left side of the building. Then upstairs… I don’t know what that room was but Ms. Ima portrayed it as a Dutch room but I don’t know what the Lewis’ did with it. BW: We go through different types of interpretations every so often. Since I’ve worked here that room on the left was, it has been many things. But originally when I worked here it was a dining area and had Pennsylvania Dutch collection in there that was… we were so proud of. Right now it is a bedroom but we are about to go through a different interpretation so we are going to get some experts over here to help us find out what would be appropriate for that time period. AB: What is found in the Four Square Barn? DG: Nothing. BW: The Four Square Barn is, we call it that but it is really a transverse barn and it is a one of the few remaining barns of its type in America of that age. It was originally built in 1830 and it is still standing very sturdily with mortis and dove tail construction and HHA# 00691 Page 10 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 10 Houston History Archives hand __________ (22.8) logs and there are no nails to hold those logs together. They are stacked but they are very sturdy and the four square refers to the different… the four cribs on each corner of that barn and you could put… they could put their crop in there for storage like their corn… to keep it off the ground because there were logs, a log floor that would keep it up off the ground. There is also a loft up at the top that they could have stayed there, maybe their first year here while they were building their house. There are some other rooms in there that include blacksmith tools and other farm implements tools and through the center of the four square barn is like a passageway that you could pull back and it is wide enough to pull a wagon and horses through if you want and right through the middle of both sides. So it was a very versatile barn. AB: What would you consider to be the most unique structure you have on this property or do you have a favorite? BW: Because of architecture or because of other? AB: Other. BW: I think the Four Square Barn is pretty unique because of how solid and sturdy it has been and we have had to do very little to it. We had to restore the outside siding to it but it has stand, it has stood the test of time with the ceiling. We have had to replace the roof twice which that is going to take some beating there but as far as the structure of the barn it is really quite something to see. Of course I think the Wagner house and the paintings and the murals are my next favorite thing. But then there’s the McGregor House which is beautiful too. They are all very beautiful. We thank that Ms. Ima had the foresight to see this way ahead of all of that, that she would know that future generations would want to see this. HHA# 00691 Page 11 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 11 Houston History Archives AB: What artifacts can be found in the McGregor House? BW: We have the… DG: We have the pyramid down there. BW: The pyramid which was constructed in 18… DG: 1874. BW: 1874 and it was… DG: It was made by Amos Shoeman and his nieces and nephews carved it out, carved all the pieces out of little pieces of wood and they fashioned the building after the captain in Austin and then around it he has these little lanterns or little lights and on top is the propeller and you light the little candle… BW: Oil lamp. DG: Oil lamp right thank you. But the heat would make the propeller spin and then they had soldiers and minors and a band that turned on a turn table on there with the propeller on top. He copied this after that part of Germany that he came from with the miners and the soldiers and the band all dressed like they were in Germany where he came from. Every year he would get this thing out at Christmas time and he would get his nieces and nephews (he was a bachelor) and he would play his ____________ (26.2) which he would do music, his favorite instruments. And he would play that __________ and they would sing Christmas carols. He requested that upon his death they burry the ____________ with him and they did. BW: That’s like an accordion. ______________ AB: The carpet in there is so intricate. Can you describe that a little bit and the furnishings in that parlor?HHA# 00691 Page 12 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 12 Houston History Archives DG: It is a copy of an original carpet that was made by the _________ sisters for their older sister. AB: Mrs. McGregor? DG: Ms. McGregor. You see and it’s been a kind of a joke that they were so happy that she was going to get married because they wouldn’t let the rest of the children get married unless their oldest one got married first and she was already up in her thirties and the girls wanted to get married. She got married and they made this needlepoint carpet for her to thank her for getting married so they could get married. BW: That was a wedding gift for her. Ms. Ima found a part, a little piece of it and sent it to, sent it to Hampton, New York and had it redone from that little scrap of material and likewise the wallpaper on the wall she did the same way. She had it redone also in New York. She wanted nothing but the finest and she wanted an exact replica of that wallpaper and carpet. DG: They did it three times before Ms. Ima was happy. BW: Yes they didn’t have enough gold in the wallpaper to suit her so she sent it back three times. She was very particular. We also have in that same room some furniture by a furniture maker, Carl Steinhaven and he is famous for the furniture that he makes because of his nature motif using animals and leaves and trees and that kind of thing in his artistry and there is a lot of carvings on the legs and the arms of those furniture. We have a ___________ and a rocker that match and the material is made out of horse hairs and we also have several table chairs that have the rams legs. The ________ and the rocking chair has a swan’s neck carved onto the arms of the furniture and on the ________ it looks like there are fish on the back, across the back and these pieces have HHA# 00691 Page 13 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 13 Houston History Archives been in the Texas Furniture Book, very famous. They have been on several exhibits around at least Texas I’m not sure about any further than that. We also have a wardrobe that he assembled and carved and it is upstairs in that same home. We put that furniture in the McGregor house because the McGregor house was a little finer house and would require a little finer furniture for the time period. AB: Are all the furnishings original or are some reproductions? BW: They are all reproductions. DG: They are all reproductions. AB: Are any of the structures recorded as a Texas Historical Landmark or similar recognition? DG: Not that I know of. AB: Are the structures individually funded by anybody? BW: We do have a little bit… we do have one structure, the Wagner house that does have a small endowment that if we do need a minor repair that it can handle that. So we have the endowment for the whole property that Ms. Ima left behind but the only other one is the Wagner endowment. Sometimes it helps because we need something minor fixed and that is what it is for and we can get to it a lot faster. End of Side 1, Tape 1 AB: Can you tell me about the future plans to landscape certain areas of Winedale? I read that on your website. BW: Well we are under the process of trying to get bids and plan, site plans for different areas. The new director, Mary Evelyn Surrell is trying to implement some cottage gardens and that type of thing around the houses. We don’t have a lot of lush HHA# 00691 Page 14 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 14 Houston History Archives landscaping at this time but we do have plans to probably come into some cottage gardens. AB: Who is funding this project? BW: It would be through the University of Texas, through the endowment. AB: Do you discuss your current exhibits with your permanent exhibit The Winedale story? BW: Are you talking about in the interpretive center? AB: Yes. BW: Okay we have the house that was moved in, Hazel Slownoak cottage had interpretive panels that tell about the Winedale story. It is a house that has a dog run down the middle, which is very typical of the houses that are on this property, very typical of the houses of that time that would bring the breezes into the center of the house. On the right side is the story of Ms. Ima, Ms. Ima Hogg and she found the property and the different things that she did and the different programs that we offer. On the left side are panels that tell about the different people that were from this area starting with the Indians from this time. There were also the immigrants to the area of Texas _____________ (14.5). AB: Who curated this exhibit? BW: The University of Texas did. AB: What is the Windale Center for the Quilt and what is the purpose of this organization? BW: We have… we started with about 13 quilts that Ms. Ima Hogg had collected and over the years we have had different quilts that have been donated to us to grow our HHA# 00691 Page 15 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 15 Houston History Archives collection to about 140 quilts. Recently the University of Texas had the opportunity to acquire about 300 more quilts which has made our collection grow to quite a number at this time. One of the reasons why the University of Texas wanted to go ahead and purchase this collection of quilts that was available from a collector in California, was there were very many valuable quilts there. They wanted to open up more research for quilts, more for women’s studies in colleges and textile studies and different areas of research for that type of…that would call for that type of research. We do also have a quilt exhibit every February that will highlight certain ones of our quilts. Since we have acquired the quilts in California we have been asked to display our quilts at the Houston International Quilt Festival in October and we won’t be displaying all of them. We will be displaying a part of them (obviously we can’t display that many). We, at the end of July, we will be taking them back out to Long Beach, California to do a quilt show there. Quilting we have found is a very big thing in America now and we, at the University, I think we are #4 on the amount of quilts that we have as far as university owning quilts, University of Nebraska being the top owner of quilts. We do plan on expanding our space by enclosing a pavilion that we have to either some permanent exhibit space or some storage space and maybe even building a newer museum space for these quilts so that everyone can come and see them at all times. AB: Could you talk about the two projects this organization is sponsoring, the Boxes Under the Bed and the Quilt Index? BW: The International Quilt Index is a project that has been working, that quilters have been working on world wide that they want everyone to be able to see the benefits of the beauty and the art of quilts. If you are able to get your quilt onto the Quilt Index then you HHA# 00691 Page 16 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 16 Houston History Archives can share that with the world and that will be for the new digital age and that will be quite an explosion of sharing for the world. We have been able to put, to take photographs of all of our quilts and put them on the Quilt Index through the expertise and help of the former director here, Kate Adams. She is actually working on the 300 quilts that we just acquired and is getting them all sectioned and putting them in order so that we can have them in our holdings here. So the quilt index will be a great way to communicate world wide with other countries and maybe have a bridge to friendships across the world and research for students to come, international students to come and do research. The Boxes Under the Bed project; our director and former director Kate Adams would be glad to, they actually go to different quilt guilds and they speak about the different projects that and kind of get… they, there’s… everyone has boxes, anyone who has done quilting in a family has a box of quilt scraps and different things like that. So they are asking people to pull those boxes out and get them working into the quilt and how to use them. They are just bringing quilt communities together and letting everybody know how we can all quilt together and increase the notoriety of quilts. AB: Could you tell me about Winedale’s archival holdings? BW: We have at this time over… how many? The figure I heard was 5,000 objects that we have. Some were collected by Ms. Ima. DG: Ms. Ima mostly started work out here. People had _____________ (19.8). (inaudible). BW: Some things are on loan. We may have had it for 25 years but they are still on loan which the family has the right to come and get, it will sadden us but we will HHA# 00691 Page 17 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 17 Houston History Archives understand. But we have amassed quite an accumulation of German immigrant heritage here. AB: Other than artifacts are there any documents that you have on file that researchers would be able to access? DG: Yes. AB: What are those? DG: Just anything… BW: We have a lot of documents first of all that will talk about the artifact. We do have those. We have ______________(20.8), photographs…you’ve been in that closet right? A lot of different things, people come to this area to try and find maps especially for projects they are working on. We have aerial maps from 1939 and the aerial maps are called on a lot for what… you know what things used to look like they can compare to Google Earth now and it is quite a difference. But they can also, like one man was researching the __________ (21.4) trace which was a wagon road that came through this area and he has done quite extensive research and has used the maps quite a lot to do that. Sometimes we will have family history or family papers. We do have library books that have family histories and we have local churches, local family histories that have been published in books. So we do have people come and research their family history and heritage in this area. AB: Is there a finding aid? BW: Right at this time we are working on a database which will be a digital database. We are converting our manual database to digital and we should complete it sometime HHA# 00691 Page 18 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 18 Houston History Archives next year. But it will be a lot easier to access where those are. We will have locations and so this tool will be very, very helpful. AB: Will researchers need to make an appointment or? BW: Yes. AB: Do you have a lot of researchers and what is a common research subject? DG: We used to have quite a few people come around and ask questions, but mostly they were asking about if anybody of that name has lived in this area and were in their family history. We used to get a lot of that. AB: Are there restrictions on the use of the material? BW: We can’t take it away from the building. It has to be used here. DG: Mostly I used to just make copies. But no we did not let anything out of the building. AB: How do students involve themselves in the museum? BW: We have students that come and visit that are studying folk art, furniture, architecture and now we are starting to see more with textiles because of the quilts. Different universities will come here and bring a group, a class. Baylor University, Cal State, San Jacinto College… different colleges are bringing students that will be of a certain class. But they are studying certain topics and they will make maybe a tour through this area and maybe study the German immigrant entry into America and their impact on furniture and furnishings of the time and their influence. AB: Tell me a little bit about Shakespeare at Winedale, I understand that there is a student organization or event…HHA# 00691 Page 19 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 19 Houston History Archives BW: Students from the University of Texas, Humanities Department come. I think there is 20 to 22… maybe up to 22 students can come. They have to apply for this program. They do get a college credit. They study the lines of the plays. They apply and if they are accepted they study the lines of the play, they perform three plays during the summer and learn the lines of those three plays, they have different parts in each one and perform those. They come in June and they continue to study their lines and build their costumes and set and build anything they need to build on their set and they live in the dormitory facility here in our dining room and pretty well just immerse themselves into Shakespeare. They start performing the plays the last two weeks in July all the way through the first two weeks in August and the last, the best of their plays, that they feel are the best, they will take to London, England to perform at their London Globe Theater there. Our theater department, the stage is fashioned after the London Globe Theater set up and I’m sure that is a little easier for them when they get there because they already know what the stage set up is going to be. But they are, the original director met with Ms. Ima and he wanted to start a program out here to teach the students Shakespeare. He felt they could learn it a lot easier if they could act it out instead of reading it. Dr. James Aires was the original director that got with Ms. Ima to get students to come out here and get that program started. It has been going on 38 years… well this is our 38th year. So we do have our Shakespeare Festival out here and the students are really bonded with Winedale they are forever bonding with Winedale and they still come and visit us many, many years later and say, “I was here in 1931…” A lot of times they remember Delores because she was here for different, you know, for such a long time so, and she remembers most of them I don’t know how she does it but she does.HHA# 00691 Page 20 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 20 Houston History Archives DG: One of them we met, he was a young guy. I remember him a little bit more because he needed helping with his lines then the other students so I had seen him quite a bit. He came into the office and ____________ (26.5). He is now grown up. He has gotten married, he has children and his hair is just as pretty and gray as you want to see it and I’ve known him since he was a teenager. Every time he comes we always have a chance to say hello and catch up. His name is Clayton Stromwell. He was a great guy. I know a lot of the other ones. BW: There are very some memorable ones that we always have. Dr. Aires is now retired and we have James Werthlen who is the new director. DG: He was also one of my students. BW: He was also one of the students. But Dr. Aires just cannot retire. He started a camp Shakespeare and is doing Shakespeare outreach for elementary school students. AB: How important do you feel this museum complex is to the community? BW: Well as a community, as a local community I mean it is a part of the community. We are a member of Roundtop Chamber of Commerce and we try to collaborate with the different businesses around. As far as the larger picture, we feel that we are hopefully preserving this history and hopefully turning it into something that is more of an educational center for students is what our main focus is today. We have changed a bit from what Ms. Ima wanted originally. We add on more of the educational focus right now because we are trying to grow in different directions also. AB: What are some of the reasons your foreign visitors come and see Winedale? BW: I’m not sure how they find us. DG: Because it is like what it is in Germany.HHA# 00691 Page 21 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 21 Houston History Archives BW: That’s true. DG: The only thing we are missing in this area is the mountain. BW: We are told many times that this area looks a lot like Germany. DG: German people really wanted to settle in this area because it looked like home and there were people who came to Houston back in the ‘60s and particularly bought land in this area because it is so much like home. The only thing they said they are missing is the mountains. But there is supposed to be a mountain out there. Right over there is supposed to be a mountain so they imagine that’s a mountain. BW: But it is very hilly and it is a clean area. DG: The climate is not like it is in Germany. Then they have people who came to Germany, from Germany over here that I have given tours and they would tell me about Germany and they would compare Germany with this area that it looks so much like it. AB: Has the site received any official recognition or awards? BW: No I don’t think so. It’s not well publicized. It is not as well publicized. AB: Why do you think these particular complexes mean in Texas compared to other outdoor museum complexes that may have 19th century structures? BW: I feel that it is more unique because it is not really a living farm it is an outdoor museum but it is also preserved in a time period frozen in time and we do try to bring authentic things of that period of time to this area when we do a festival or any events. We try to stay with that period of time and freeze the time for people to see what it was like in that era of time.HHA# 00691 Page 22 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 22 Houston History Archives DG: When they first started here we had animals. Chickens and things like that but then over the years the coyotes and the wild animals came into the area and they carried all that off. BW: We do have a lot of wooded acres and we do have a lot of wilder animals… raccoons and armadillos and possums and deer, a lot of deer, and coyotes and we have a little family of foxes that are here. The family of foxes every spring will have, her mother will have her pups under the ______ (30.6) porch and you could be from me to you from a baby fox. It’s great. But we don’t try to get close to them because we realize they have got to return to the wild and we don’t want to hand feed them because they will have to try to fend for themselves and we don’t want them to maybe trust people because then we might lose them because being so trusting they might get too close to the end of a gun. There are no fire arms on this property. You can bring a fishing pole though in the lake. That’s the only weapon you can bring. AB: Can you describe an every day, or a normal day here at the facility? DG: You go ahead mine’s a different story then yours. BW: Well we’ve had a different change in, through the years… it depends on what time of year that you have. When we have a group here we’re concerned with seeing to their needs to make sure that their food is… that the cooks are here, that the staff is here to feed them to make sure that their meetings are going to go smoothly, that they have the right materials for to have that. We make sure that the dormitory is in good shape if they are staying overnight. If they need tours we take them on tours. If they need to know, a lot of times we will give them directions to the next destination. We are so far removed that we kind of have to know the back roads to tell them. We have had days we have HHA# 00691 Page 23 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 23 Houston History Archives now been linked with the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center and they, because the University of Texas has acquired them since her death, and they are going to give us a site plan for our 200 acres and give us, we are hoping to have a lot of wild flowers soon. We are going to have… that is going to be instructions on when to cut the grass and when it is okay if seeds have been dropped. We are also a part of the Oxford, England botanical seed collection because of the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center. They have come out and collected species, believe it or not, that they didn’t have already and they are in production with this heritage seed collection and they are giving us, like I said they are ready to start on our site plan which will be part of our landscaping. We have also have linked to ourselves lately with a master naturalist which is like a natural gardener and they are trying to recreate our trials. Ms. Ima had always wanted to use the wooded area to have walking trails. They… that never really got off the ground and we are hoping to reinstate what she had started and get those trails going again. The master naturalists are going to come out and help us with that. We are also linked with the Pioneer Herbs Society and they keep our herb garden going at the McGregor house, we have an herb garden in back of that which has medicinal and cooking herbs in it. It is a quite nice herb garden. So we have Herb Society meetings here, wildflower and gardening meetings and we had a quilt symposium, just a lot of different programs are going. It seems when we finish one we’ve got to start on another one so we are always, constantly preparing for the next event and taking care of the general business of maintaining the property, which means a broken water well or calling, like calling plumbers for an emergency break in a line. So we’ve got, we’ve constantly got upkeeps that we’ve got to do and payroll and accounting and everything has to go from this office.HHA# 00691 Page 24 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 24 Houston History Archives AB: What would you say would be the most difficult aspect of running a museum like this? DG: I’ve never found anything difficult. It may have been difficult but from my point of view it wasn’t. BW: I think maybe dealing with the heat has been the worst. I can’t think of really anything else. Because normally we have really good weather, we usually have a really good breeze blowing because we are really high, we’re high up on a hill here. This it just doesn’t seem to have a down side. AB: How many people are involved in running the museum? BW: We have…seven regular employees and three more docents that help us run the museums. AB: How many of the activities that you have here or exhibits are hands on? BW: Well I feel in a way, you know you’re not supposed to go and pick up the items and everything but because you can walk through the houses and you are shown, I feel like it is a hands on because we do try to show different aspects of the museum that you might want to touch and we try not to get, we try to get people not to touch the quilts and things like that but a lot of museums rope you off from even entering a room. So in a way I feel that we are pretty close to hands on in some aspects of it, you know the way… DG: You can look but don’t touch. BW: Yeah get a little closer to it. AB: Image yourself living there? BW: Yeah put yourself in there in that space. AB: Do you have workshops for your visitors?HHA# 00691 Page 25 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 25 Houston History Archives BW: No I don’t think we have, you know we can offer, if someone wants to use our conference facility for a workshop for a particular subject matter then we are able to use that. It would normally have to be a non profit organization and, but we do have quite a few different types of workshops that we have in our conference center and people just have to call and make a reservation for that. AB: How do you gauge public reaction to some of the stuff found in the buildings? BW: Just by the look on their face I think! We have really good comments and we have just a lot of good feedback and with the conversation that we have with the people that we take through the tours, we can see their interest, we can see if they were disinterested then they would walk away but a lot of times they keep us talking every moment we can talk. So anyway we do have good reactions. Every time someone comes here and I don’t know if it is for you too, I’m sure it is, but I’ve learned something from my visitors. It’s never… it’s always amazed me that I can learn something new every day and I think that keeps it interesting. End of Tape 1 AB: How do you fund the Winedale Museum or the Historical? BW: The Winedale Museum is funded by the endowment that Ms. Ima left behind. I think that the University of Texas is the governing body over that endowment and we mostly have our budget that is, it’s pretty well is the interest that is made on the money that they are keeping in safe keeping for the museum to keep it going. AB: Can people make donations to the museum? BW: Yes. AB: Any amount?HHA# 00691 Page 26 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 26 Houston History Archives BW: Any amount. AB: How often is the museum visited on a weekly basis? BW: During the week we have maybe 20, 25 visitors and so we aren’t well visited at this time during the off season but when we have events we have more visitors. We have about 500 at Christmas visitors, actually 600 counting the volunteers, but we’ve had events where we’ve had a couple thousand people here at one time. So we mostly have an event where we have a lot of visitors at once. AB: Do you have several volunteers here on a regular basis? BW: Well we have docents that are, that come usually when we need them if they can. We try to figure out… they work well with us and… DG: They already know what’s going on. BW: Yeah these are… DG: They’ve been here for years so we call them. If we need something we can put them where you want them and they can take over you don’t have to… BW: Now sometimes if we have a large event we can call some University of Texas staff and that’s on a volunteer basis also. They come out here for some events to man the… like if there is an increase, if there is a gate, they have to have a ticket, some will come down from the Center For American History the staff will come down for the day. DG: They all seem to love it. The people that are Friends of Winedale, they come. BW: Yes we do have some Friends of Winedale that will come and help us and like I said we did have over 100 volunteers at Christmas to help that event and it was well, it just ran very smoothly and very few glitches and for it to be spread out over this wide HHA# 00691 Page 27 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 27 Houston History Archives acreage, to keep up with everything it worked real well. So we do have I’d forgotten that group of volunteers but it will be maybe for a special event. AB: You mentioned earlier about certain programs that you offer can you tell me a little bit about that? BW: Are you talking about? AB: Hosted programs, do you host any kind of activities for students besides the Shakespeare at Winedale and the camp? BW: Well mostly we have the, those programs but mostly we have the symposiums that will be one time a year. The History Symposium we have. It’ll be… DG: Shakespeare? BW: Yeah she said the Shakespeare and the other things that we have are mostly for different educational purposes. If any, like if the Master Naturalists want to come and have a community meeting then we have that. We also have our facilities available for the Walk _______ (4.8) Center and anything that would be educational we are open to having their programs. AB: Do you offer internships? BW: Yes we will offer internships. AB: What do you think the future holds for this museum? BW: I think the present focus is to keep it as an educational facility and I think the University of Texas hopes that it will be an avenue for their students studying the textiles, costumes, the different women’s studies and we are not sure if or when the quilts are going to take… it has already pulled us into a lot of directions we didn’t expect and so the original 13 quilts that Ms. Ima collected started quite a legacy there with it’s, just a lot of HHA# 00691 Page 28 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 28 Houston History Archives people are collecting quilts as art and their collections have grown quite well but a lot of people are getting the benefit of being able to study these quilts now and see just how things were done and so anyway… but the main focus right now is to get the focus on educational and so anyone who wanted anything all the way from family history to university studies are welcome to Winedale. We do have our Christmas event that we are hoping to give more people an idea … the houses are open. It’s a public event a public free event and we are hoping to get people more educated to this period of time. By folk like demonstrations of the time and reenactments in the houses, so we are open to all different possibilities but we are hoping that that event will grow every year. It is a typical German Christmas and the houses are decorated how they would be at that time and we have the German Santa Claus and stage coach ride and that is very, very popular. We have wagon rides and that kind of thing. We are hoping that this event will grow and be an outreach to the public. AB: What kind of marketing strategies do you use to advertise? BW: Right now we have a “Save the Date” type of notice on the internet. We are trying now to collect more email addresses then snail mail addresses. We do still have people who don’t have computers so we do mail out a post card that will tell about our event and that seems to be the most current way to get the word out is the post cards and radio and newspaper and also we advertise right now, on our website and all the way from radio stations to news papers from Houston to Austin and also by email from anyone who would like to be added to our email, notice of our events. We do publish an events calendar and so anyone who is interested in what we have going on here to find out. HHA# 00691 Page 29 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 29 Houston History Archives AB: What is the most important thing people who have never visited, you want people who have never visited the museum to know? BW: How people lived at that time. How… I think about every time I go into the houses I think are beautiful but I realize how far we have come in the future and how dependent we are on so many things that I don’t know that I could have lived in that time. I probably could have but if you try to put yourself in that era and you imagine what it would be like to be in that period of time it would be a very difficult life and you understand why people died at a lot younger age. They had quite a bit to go through and we do have things very easy in our time in life. AB: Are there any changes that you would like to make to Winedale? BW: Just bring more visitors. DG: Bring more visitors. I had a tour one time of students talking about what she was saying a while ago. When we went into the smoke house and I told them the process that people had to go through to animals to get meat to eat because you couldn’t go to the store, and when I got through with that story one of those kids said, “I don’t know why you did all that you could have just went to Wal-Mart!” BW: They don’t really understand, children don’t really understand and maybe even adults, a lot of them never even thought about trying to be, or read about history in a book to actually see this history preserved and it is a little bit more of a hands on, visual, you can see it, it really did happen this… this house was really here in 1830 and we want to preserve that because there are very few examples of that particular… I mean we are going to lose them as time goes on and if buildings are torn down, if they are not preserved we will lose that history and this history has been preserved for that purpose. HHA# 00691 Page 30 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 30 Houston History Archives So that just like the Shakespeare program he would want you to not have to read Shakespeare out of a book but actually act it and understand it because Shakespeare was a brilliant writer. We also would like for people to know that this really, this didn’t happen in a book it really happened and here is a structure that all these families survived in. So that… it is just really neat. You do see a lot of museums going back to folk life demonstrations and I think parents want to educate their young children especially. How they had to wash clothes; how they had to put shoes on the horse and it would have been a blacksmith and… DG: How they had to study by lamp light. BW: How they had to study by lamp light, no electricity. DG: No washing machines. BW: No they used wash board and it is just… they had to shuck the corn off the husk and just all different things by hand that they didn’t have all this machinery to do that. It is really important to preserve that. AB: What do you find the most rewarding thing about working here? DG: The people you work with. BW: The people I meet too. I meet a new person every day I come and it’s just really neat. We enjoy each other’s company so much and I have learned so much from this lady and like I said I’ve learned something every day from everyone who comes. They will bring back stories from their part of the country and say, “Well where I live this also happened to the Germans.” Or “This also happened to acres of people.” It is just a really neat, it adds to what you know as a docent and it hopefully makes your story a little bit better, more interesting then your regular history class because a history class has a HHA# 00691 Page 31 of 31 Interviewees: Gummelt, Delores and Barbara White Interview Date: July 17, 2008 University of Houston 31 Houston History Archives lecture and as a child I did not enjoy history because it was read out of the book or I had a test over it but I didn’t retain it. But with this I think you can retain it because you can see it actually happen. DG: Like with Shakespeare I always read it in the book. But we go out here and you watch the play and it means something and I often wish that they had the Shakespeare volunteers when I was reading Shakespeare in high school. I would have helped so much. But the way it was it was just a group of words I had to imagine. AB: Is there anything else you’d like to add to this interview? BW: I think it is important that what you are doing is really a good thing to get people to realize that I think it’s the same to know the things that reading out of the book is not always the way you should learn history. You should learn it by visiting a facility and a museum is not going, is a great place to be. AB: Could you briefly tell them your hours and admission charged? BW: We are open from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. during the week day. For tours we are going by appointment right now and the tours are like $6.00 per person and so, prearranged tours would be, if you could call the phone number (979) 278-3530. We do tours, we do bus road tours for senior adults. We have quite a few that come out here from different areas of Austin and Houston and will come and then they will eat at the local counter, Roundtop at Clumps and have a hot meal and then enjoy the shops in town. So we not only have university students that come out we do have senior groups. You’ve had junior groups before and a school group or just any individuals can call ahead and make an appointment. AB: Alright thank you so much for your time.