will be allowed into the plant.
"The Subcommittee has expressed
its appreciation to all parties for their
cooperation in reaching this solution,"
he continued. "You see, we, the Subcommittee, could not allow it to
appear that the man had lost his job
just because he had come forward to
testify. As you know, the only evidence that a committee such as ours
can obtain about the secrets of the
Communist underground is from the
witnesses themselves — from the
people who have been in the Communist conspiracy."
"From the people who come forward to tell their story," inserted
"Yes," acknowledged Mr. Morris.
"That is our only source. And if we
begin to seal up that source, we'll no
longer have any information. All these
great secrets will have been lost."
Former Affiliations A Starting Point
"Now, to answer your question," he
continued, "the testimony of ex-Communists can be evaluated and gauged
probably more accurately than can the
testimony of another witness because
as a starting point you have that person's association with tbe Communist
Party. You know what it is, and you
are able to evaluate it. Operating from
there, you have at least some evidence
from which to proceed. Of course, you
have to look particularly at the terminal dates anel the circumstances surrounding the person's departure from
the Communist Party. Anel you have
to notice what his relationships with
Communists have been since that time.
All these facts provide information
which isn't available in evaluating the
testimony of someone who has never,
from all outward evielence, been in
the Communist Party. There, you
would have no starting point."
Mr. Morris cited as an example the
testimony of Whittaker Chambers.
"We were able to assess his testimony," he pointeel out, "because he
specifically said that he was in a certain unit of the Communist Party —
that he worked with a man named
Beekoff, and he diel certain things.
By going out and following up on all
these particular leads, we were able-
to assess their value. You really had
no starting point in connection with
Alger Hiss, who denied these things.
So therefore, answering your question
in a long-winded way, I say that very
often it is easier to assess the testi-
mony of a person who says he has
been a Communist and has broken
away, than a person who denies having been a Communist."
Soviets Sensitive to Publicity
Mr. Doherty brought up the point
that a person in a position similar to
that eif Thomas Black could come forward and testify, anel still fear possible-
retribution at the hands of Red agents.
"Suppose that a man gets clearance,"
he theorized, "what is to prevent those
agents from threatening him again
unless he continues acting as a spy?"
"The mere fact that he had publicly
taken the stand and is now a name in
the news is a wonderful guarantee
against such an occurrence," state-el
Mr. Morris. "If he is again approached
by a Soviet agent, he has only to tell
the FBI or the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee about that particular overture, and immeeliately it would
come right into the public eye."
Mr. Morris stressed that the Soviets
have an extremely acute sense of public relations, and would do nothing
Soviet Union anel the Soviet satellite*
They are doing it, not because they
want people back there (because as
some witnesses have recently pointed
out, the individual countries are trying to get their war prisoners out of
the Soviet Union), but so that they
can hold them up before worlel public
opinion. Let's take the case of tbe five
Stiviet seamen who we-nt back — they
can say 'Look, these five people spent
eight months in the Unite-el States.
They were able to see what that country stood for, and yet they elected to
return here to the Soviet Union.' "
Mr. Doherty mentioned that the
Soviet had bungled that job by leaving
a bloeiely shirt behind, proving that
these sailors had been shanghaied and
"Well, they bungled in many ways,
acknowledged Mr. Morris, "but the
fact remains that they were able to
get five of them back.
"Tbe Internal Security Subcommittee was able to bring out some eif the
information that was reposing in the
files of eiur intelligence organizations,
Mr. Morris continued, "anel bv so
CHAMBERS BENTLEY BUDENZ CROUCH DODD
"The only evidence that a committee such as ours can obtain about the secrets of the Commuri,s
underground is from the witnesses themselves — from the people who have been in the Communis
that would cause them diplomatic or
"An overture now to Thomas Black
with respect to giving him another
assignment, or making an approach to
him," he saiel, "if reported and publicized would be a terrific setback
which in my opinion they would not
risk in any circumstane-e-s."
"Well, that brings us to what I consider the $64,000 question," said Mr.
Doherty. "Mr. Morris, how extensive is
Soviet espionage in this country
"It is more extensive than I believe
anyone realizes," Mr. Morris disclosed.
"Now, in connection with this series
of hearings dealing with just the
redefection campaign — Soviets, as
you know, all over the world are trying to draw people back into the
doing were- able- to offset that origin*
redefection to a great extent.
"Now I submit to you," he declare*
"that if you eliel not have an insttt"
tion such as a congressional commit-*
that could bring out these facts, the'
they must gather elust in the files "
our intelligence organizations, anel »
important element in your democrat1
society would be lost. I think, really-'
shows in a rather dramatic way tt1
need for an institution such as a cO"
gressional committee to dramatize ;l
these things that otherwise would &
lost to public knowledge."
Mr. Hurleigh emphasized that eV**
though the committee did show «•*
the- return of the Soviet seamen w^
shanghai job, and proved in this CO-1
tiy that this was a forced retufj1'
through such evidence as the bio"
Facts Forum News, October, i™